tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post9068817099972727560..comments2023-10-22T17:40:51.323-04:00Comments on Tativille: "Doomed Love / Amor de Perdição (1978): Manoel de Oliveira's Greatest?" - Co-written by Michael J. Anderson & Lisa K. BroadMichael J. Andersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12333893240336518881noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post-19955623906843943702015-04-21T03:57:05.801-04:002015-04-21T03:57:05.801-04:00My own choice of favourite Manoel de Oliveira film...My own choice of favourite Manoel de Oliveira films would be...<br />Abraham Valley<br />The Strange Case of Angelica<br />A Talking Picture<br />Mon casPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952802832128489220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post-47620653127485935642015-04-21T03:54:19.486-04:002015-04-21T03:54:19.486-04:00My own choice of favourite Manoel de Oliveira film...My own choice of favourite Manoel de Oliveira films would be...<br />Abraham Valley<br />The Strange Case of Angelica<br />A Talking Picture<br />Mon casPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952802832128489220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post-77045292409214347982011-11-07T15:21:35.801-05:002011-11-07T15:21:35.801-05:00Michael and Lisa - you have an exceptional blog, a...Michael and Lisa - you have an exceptional blog, and I thank you for your articulate appreciation of "Doomed Love." All that you mention here--the way in which it "adds to cinema's equation" and strikes a balance between "the literary, the theatrical, and the cinematic" seems so in tune with elements I find exciting in my experience with film. But, I have to say, even though I am not familiar with de Oliveira's work, and I even anticipate seeing "Valley of Abraham," I cannot imagine any other reason for the praise "Doomed Love" has received, which I saw at the Gene Siskel Film Center a few years back, than a fetishistic, perhaps egoistic, engagement with the most obscure, bleak corners of cinema history. I say that knowing full well that an auteur as influential as de Oliveira is always interesting to cineastes in the entirety of their filmography, and with an experiential knowledge of what it is like to defend those bleak corners myself...but, my god, "Doomed Love" is a slog. Even while re-reading your descriptive passages, I failed to reengage or even recall any of it, my brain perhaps recoiling as it did post-screening, when I stood outside the theater amazed and relieved at how quickly the whole experience had fallen out of mind. With that said, one of my passions is the ongoing conversation of great film, particularly the avant-garde, the meta-cinematic, the farthest, most challenging reaches. I would never tell anyone that they are wrong for liking what they like--I taught film for a number of years, and although the temptation has presented itself, it gets you nowhere. I believe you love "Doomed Love" for all of the reasons you expound on here--keep up the great work. Ultimately, I just needed to express how confounding it is to me that there are people out there who love this film. Thanks for your time, jjhJ. Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13528780351297581593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post-91239618027815650802008-09-13T10:57:00.000-04:002008-09-13T10:57:00.000-04:00Dear Kevin,I very much recommend "Abraham's Valley...Dear Kevin,<BR/><BR/>I very much recommend "Abraham's Valley," which to my thinking is one of the three finest Oliveira pictures I have seen (among the 15-20, roughly). Among his not insignificant number of masterpieces, it is rates with the very best, including "Doomed Love." While I have stated my preference for "Doomed Love," largely on the level of its formal/stylistic rigor, "Abraham's Valley" is to my mind a more consistently engaging experience. Do see it. <BR/><BR/>Also, you can add items like "New Film" or "Classic Film" through the "Add a Widget" command within the "Customize" tab. Sorry to all you non-bloggers out there.Michael J. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12333893240336518881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post-63979469010949430932008-09-13T08:31:00.000-04:002008-09-13T08:31:00.000-04:00There's no opportunity in the UK to see any of de ...There's no opportunity in the UK to see any of de Oliveira's films, but I noticed my local library has a VHS of Abraham's Valley, the director's take on Madame Bovary. Would you recommend this?<BR/><BR/>On a different note, how did you manage to get the "new film" and "classic film" segments on the right hand side of the blog? It doesn't seem to be in the layout <BR/>templates. I was just wondering for my own blog.<BR/><BR/>Ta.Kevin Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07138500873972228861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post-87128046492978497062008-09-05T00:42:00.000-04:002008-09-05T00:42:00.000-04:00Nathaniel,Thank you for your fine comments.I suppo...Nathaniel,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your fine comments.<BR/><BR/>I suppose, ultimately, my assessment of <I>Doomed Love's</I> place among Oliveira's work derives from my opinions on <I>Francisca</I> and <I>Valley of Abraham</I>, which I feel very strongly are his two best works <I>other</I> than <I>Doomed Love</I>. <I>Francisca</I> may have it beat on its formal radicalism and <I>Valley of Abraham</I> on its level of entertainment (relative to Oliveira's corpus) but I do think <I>Doomed Love</I> brings something substantial to bare on both fronts. I personally find it more moving than <I>Francisca</I> and more formally adventurous and rigorous than <I>Valley of Abraham</I>. I look at it as the Oliveira film that has it all, and that, to wit, does not seem to strike such an avowedly anti-cinematic position, but rather adds to cinema's equation.<BR/><BR/>Also, Rosenbaum's Oliveira piece was flummoxing and the list beyond arbitrary. Actually, it was quite honestly stupid. <BR/><BR/>Michael<BR/><BR/><B>Lisa adds:</B> <I>Doomed Love</I> is exceptional for the balance it strikes between the literary, the theatrical and the cinematic, something achieved by neither of the two other works mentioned. Also, its strong artifice in its aesthetic may just be a matter of a personal preference that Michael and I share.Michael J. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12333893240336518881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13095695.post-34762229321689169752008-09-04T22:52:00.000-04:002008-09-04T22:52:00.000-04:00While I appreciate the well considered thought tha...While I appreciate the well considered thought that went into this assessment and I certainly acknowledge the formal accomplishments you speak of I'm afraid I just can't agree. I wish I could.<BR/><BR/>I recently and finally saw this during the retrospective in Chicago and brought along two friends, one of whom teaches theatre and the other film. I knew more or less what to expect and I thought this would be a perfect group to experience it with. The friend who teaches theatre had never seen any Oliveira before though he was well informed and prepared as well. My other friend was, admittedly, less amenable to this from the start as he is hardly an Oliveira fan and gets stuck on the dialogue heavy nature of the films. He understands and appreciates that this is endemic to Oliveira's project but that doesn't endear it to him. I set all this up so that I can attempt to somewhat justify my own response as not totally anomalous.<BR/><BR/>Almost from the start I was not liking what I was seeing and my discontent grew rapidly and deepened over the course of the next hour and a half. I was literally startled when intermission arrived as I genuinely felt as though the screening had already lasted the full 4 + hours. The remaining two were virtually unbearable and I was really disappointed to be exposing my friends to this one as a necessary experience purely on the basis of its overwrought reputation. Though they were good sports about the whole thing neither were impressed by it.<BR/><BR/>And it's not as though we were missing the relevant insight here. God knows I'm an ardent enthusiast for Oliveira but in all honesty I prefer almost anything else to this. My friends and I all complelety grasped the details you analyze here but it just was in no way enough to justify the picture's excruciating length. <BR/><BR/>For me it functions as an archival piece mostly, capturing a specific stage in the development of Oliveira's aesthetic. It does have value in that sense, yes, but I can't understand or relate to the excessive enthusiasm from people whose opinions I respect, such as yourselves, Zach Campbell, Rosenbaum, etc. Once again, for me almost every facet of this picture which you point to has been refined since this to achieve considerably more impressive aims. The foregrounding of the formal moves on their own has little resonance for me.<BR/><BR/>Also, I just can't believe that the content here which all the meta-textual gestures are designed to elucidate didn't just feel like profoundly boring, hoary old material to you. One of the things Oliveira generally does so very well is select great texts to adapt or else engage with terrific collaborators in a visionary way. But this basic narrative material is so relentlessly banal and solipsist and (perhaps intentionally) hermetically limited in scope or resonance that I simply could not care less. The formal advances are wasted on all this nonsense and don't elevate matrerial which has so little depth or worth. I assume we are meant to be compelled and astonished by the <EM>concept</EM> of devotion itself in its panoply of expressivity, ranging from rational to irrational and be then compelled to assess the legitimacy of our own assessment of it. But if the "love story" at the center has such arrested ambition it's hard to see it, once again, as deserving of this treatment. Is the point that it shouldn't have to be any particular kind of love to merit that? Okay, but even so it still feels oh so very slight by comparion to the virtual perfection of something like <EM>La Lettre</EM>. <BR/><BR/>Zach Campbell over at Elusive Lucidity also makes an elegant case for the metaphysical implications of Oliveira's techinque but ultimately is left with skeptical conclusions regarding the foundation of his own investigation. Deservedly so in my opinion and I hate to say that. I can't help but think that this very fact though, specifically the implication that the metaphysical potency of <EM>Doomed Love</EM> may be subjective and self-applied and thus easier to ultimately disregard or reject with relief, is the very reason for its stunning popularity with somebody like Rosenbaum, whom I can't take seriously anymore since his dismissal of <EM>Valley of Abraham</EM> (Oliveira's greatest film in my view) and his highly dubious list of Oliveira's films in ranked order of preference.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, sorry to ramble on like that but I would genuinely like to know your thoughts on these matters as I suspect your attitudes are closer to my own than mine are to either Campbell or Rosenbaum. Thanks again for the well considered write up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com